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Riches6
(@riches6)
Lobo

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

Quote
Topic starter Posted : February 22, 2021 8:50 pm
Pmixmaster
(@pmixmaster)
Pup
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

One can argue bliss was the most successful. 7 NCAA appearances ?

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Posted : February 22, 2021 8:51 pm
Pmixmaster
(@pmixmaster)
Pup

But passion and love of the game for me was Alford. He embraced the culture and the passion here and that goes far esp when you win like he did

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Posted : February 22, 2021 8:52 pm
Riches6
(@riches6)
Lobo
Posted by: @pmixmaster
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

One can argue bliss was the most successful. 7 NCAA appearances ?

Hmmmm....good argument.  I would still put Bob King at the top because he got the Pit built and was successful in a much more limited time but maybe he deserves #2.  Limited time means harder to get in the NCAA and the NIT was big time.

This post was modified 1 week ago by Riches6
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Topic starter Posted : February 22, 2021 8:54 pm
Lobomaniac2018
(@lobomaniac2018)
Lobo Registered

1. Norm Ellenberger

2. Steve Alford

3. Dave Bliss

4. Gary Colson

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Posted : February 22, 2021 8:57 pm
Doublealum
(@doublealum)
Pack Leader Customer, Registered, Lobo level

Based on how the overall program ( on the court, in the classroom and in the community)preformed for me there have only been 3 “good” coaches - King, Alford and Colson. All the others had major failure in the required 3 components of a college program that IMO, disqualify them from being considered “good” college level coaches.

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Posted : February 22, 2021 9:47 pm
Altakaia
(@altakaia)
Lobo

I say most NCAA tournament appearances by Bliss slightly edges Alford's passion & love.

1) Bliss

2) Alford

3) King

4) Ellenberger

5) Colson

6) McKay

7) Neal

8) Fraschilla

9) Harrison

10) Weir

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Posted : February 22, 2021 9:52 pm
loborick liked
txlobo95
(@txlobo95)
Alpha Lobo Lobo level
Posted by: @pmixmaster

One can argue bliss was the most successful. 7 NCAA appearances ?

Wasn't around for King, but it's a tough choice between Bliss and Alford.  Alford, by far had more toughness in our teams and road wins vs. any other coach in my lifetime.

However, Bliss took UNM to the NCAA tourney in 7 of 9 years and 4 wins, with a single win in 4 straight years, and really put UNM on the modern CBB map.  Think about it, we had an entire lost decade of missing the NCAA's before Bliss.

When Alford Arrived, we had at least been to the NCAA's in 2005, so it wasn't a decade+ dry spell like it was with Bliss.

For the record, I do believe we would have won at least 1 if not 2 NCAA tourney games had Alford returned in 13-14.  Better seed and an opponent more likely to beat.

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Posted : February 22, 2021 9:55 pm
GoN4it
(@gon4it)
Lobo
Posted by: @txlobo95
Posted by: @pmixmaster

One can argue bliss was the most successful. 7 NCAA appearances ?

Wasn't around for King, but it's a tough choice between Bliss and Alford.  Alford, by far had more toughness in our teams and road wins vs. any other coach in my lifetime.

However, Bliss took UNM to the NCAA tourney in 7 of 9 years and 4 wins, with a single win in 4 straight years, and really put UNM on the modern CBB map.  Think about it, we had an entire lost decade of missing the NCAA's before Bliss.

When Alford Arrived, we had at least been to the NCAA's in 2005, so it wasn't a decade+ dry spell like it was with Bliss.

For the record, I do believe we would have won at least 1 if not 2 NCAA tourney games had Alford returned in 13-14.  Better seed and an opponent more likely to beat.

Youngin! lol

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Posted : February 22, 2021 10:01 pm
LoboMike
(@lobomike)
Member

1. Frank Martin

......

The rest (or who cares)

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Posted : February 22, 2021 10:06 pm
BrutusXXX
(@brutusxxx)
Lobo

Bliss had the advantage of being able to schedule 13 to 15 cupcakes each season and still get into NCAAs along with having Rudy Davalos aka “The Godfather” sitting as a long-standing member of the selection committee.

Sports Illustrated once put together an article that pictured the college basketball universe. Davalos was one of the group of good ole boys in the very center of it going back to his days as AD at Houston and the SWC. One of the most influential and powerful men in college BB.

Lobos were consistently getting in with an At Large Invitation despite low RPI rankings and poor strength of schedule. BB media was always critical of Lobo’s SOS, especially during the Selection Shows.  Upto a couple of seasons ago, Davalos was on the selection committee for the NIT Tournament now run by the NCAA, still wielding power and influence. 

Despite the parade of cupcakes, “The Pit” was always near capacity and the Lobos had gaudy won/loss numbers and national ranking. Those were the days.

Colson was prior to Davalos and could never get the at-large invite as the Stink of Lobogate was hanging on, although some of his teams probably deserved to get in. Prior to the NCAA taking over the NIT, Lobos were always assured an invite to the NIT, as those NIT games in “The Pit” were always near sellouts. Lobos were mainstays in the NIT and always part of late night TV programing. Although a consolation, those NIT games gave the Lobos a national foot print.

Funny, but both Bliss and Davalos ended up at New Mexico as they were running from the stink of the Southwest Conference. Bliss at SMU escaped the “Death Penalty” only because the NCAA showed SMU mercy as they had already put the football program under it. SMU under Bliss was rated as high as #2 in the nation. One of the stipulations put on SMU BB was that Bliss could not keep Larry Johnson of UNLV fame on scholarship. LJ was the consensus #1 HS player coming out that year. LJ had to play a couple of seasons in JUCO BB. The whole SWC was so corrupt that it had to be disbanded to keep the NCAA facade of integrity in place as media pulled the covers on what had been going on in the SWC for years. “The Godfather” at Houston was a part of that as one of the “good ole boys” in the SWC.

This post was modified 4 days ago 2 times by BrutusXXX
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Posted : February 22, 2021 10:46 pm
LoboD85
(@lobod85)
Pup

Bliss

Stormin Norman

King

Alford

 

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Posted : February 22, 2021 11:18 pm
JulieG
(@julieg)
Contributor

I am biased, but I have to go with Bob King. I am not sure we would be where we got to be and have the potential that we have without him turning things around. We followed him up with some good coaches for what was needed to set the table and finally with Bliss and Alford got to our best teams. I think we can get back to success, but a lot of things need to change.

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Posted : February 22, 2021 11:29 pm
Altakaia
(@altakaia)
Lobo

@brutusxxx

Good point Brutus about root cause. It is indeed a tiny difference between Bliss and Colson's abilities. And they both recruited about the same number of very talented players. Check out how the top 8 players from the 1987-1988 team compares to the top 8 players from the 1996-1997 team:

 

87-88: Charlie Thomas, Hunter Greene, Rob Loeffel, Rob Robbins, Jimmy Rogers, Darrell McGee, Luc Longley, Kurt Miller

96-97: Spider Smith, Clayton Shields, KT, Lamont Long, David Gibson, Royce Olney, Greg Schornstein, Daniel Santiago

If the 87-88 team played in the mid 1990s, I'm sure they would have made the NCAA tournament. 

 

This post was modified 7 days ago by Altakaia
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Posted : February 23, 2021 12:12 am
AustinTLobo
(@austintlobo)
Lobo

The Top 3 were so close in my mind, I assigned points (100 equals perfect) to indicate the disparity among the coaches.  The Higher the better.  No sweet sixteen appearances under the current tournament format by any Lobo Coach.   The Lobos Haven't seen their best Coach yet. 

  1. Steve Alford  89  (NCAA bids, teams mentally tough, best conference road record and continuous T25 rankings, championships)
  2. Dave Bliss  88   (NCAA bids, conference championship, good players, T25 rankings
  3. Bob King  86  (Mr. UNM Basketball, defense was calling card, he built the PIT, Highly regarded, T15 rankings)
  4. Craig Neal  70  (Best assistant Coach out there, as Head Coach, 27 win season, championship. T25 rankings)
  5. Gary Colson  69  (Lots of wins and fun, good brand of basketball, team were tough, good players, best PIT environment)
  6. McKay 67  (2005, MWC Championship in Denver, Granger, otherwise he was terrible)
  7. Fraschilla  49  (not impressive, just below base-line middle, the NIT Post season bid wore out its welcome under Colson)
  8. Weir 35   (not impressive, losing record, no player development, can't coach his team to cherish a possession -turnover plagued)
  9. Ellenberger  29  (T20 rankings, scandal, WAC regular season 2x, what could have been)
  10. Harrison  17   (Great effort, tough situation, 1 year situation, W/L at UNM 6-22, East Carolina, 50-91)

I give Harrison props for taking on the challenge but the bottom line is winning, championships, and attendance.  Regarding Ellenberger, if you fall out of good graces with the University you are disregarded.  Ellenberger, allowed Manny Goldstein to total screw the University and set it back a number of years, embarrassed the University,  Cannot give him props.

 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 1:10 am
BrutusXXX
(@brutusxxx)
Lobo

I will rank them by Top 10 national ranking appearances ..... 

It will have to be later in the day

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Posted : February 23, 2021 7:29 am
Lobo_for_life
(@lobo_for_life)
Pack Leader Lobo level

1. Bliss

2. Alford

3. Ellenberger

4. King.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 8:07 am
UNM Class of1972
(@unm-class-of-1972)
Pack Leader
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

More or less agree maybe with a slightly different order. Bliss and Ellenberger needs asterisks next to their names for being either cheaters or people with bad character. Colson comes in first place for being a nice man.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 8:15 am
JulieG liked
Lobo_for_life
(@lobo_for_life)
Pack Leader Lobo level
Posted by: @unm-class-of-1972
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

More or less agree maybe with a slightly different order. Bliss and Ellenberger needs asterisks next to their names for being either cheaters or people with bad character. Colson comes in first place for being a nice man.

The topic was coaching success. No asterisks, please.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 8:27 am
Lobo_for_life
(@lobo_for_life)
Pack Leader Lobo level
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

I would only change by putting Fraschilla between Colson and McKay.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 8:29 am
BubbaWolf
(@bubbawolf)
Pup

1. Weir

2. McKay 

3. Fanchilla 

4. Neal

5. Bliss

6. Alford

7. Ellenberger

8. Bob King

9. Gary Colson

10. ????

I'm going off of the kind of person they were....from trusting to un trustworthy 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 9:17 am
pitforever90
(@pitforever90)
Lobo

The funny things about these lists is that most people would have been putting McKay at the bottom just a few years ago. He was always rolled out as the butt of jokes on the Lair per coaching not long ago. Just goes to show that most people don't really know much about coaching beyond looking at a W/L record. 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 9:49 am
boingee
(@boingee)
Lobo

Good thing the Lair has you to keep us in check oh wise Oracle.

Posted by: @pitforever90

The funny things about these lists is that most people would have been putting McKay at the bottom just a few years ago. He was always rolled out as the butt of jokes on the Lair per coaching not long ago. Just goes to show that most people don't really know much about coaching beyond looking at a W/L record. 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 9:55 am
Lobo_for_life
(@lobo_for_life)
Pack Leader Lobo level
Posted by: @bubbawolf

I'm going off of the kind of person they were....from trusting to un trustworthy 

The topic was coaching success. Please give us your order based on coaching sucess.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 10:21 am
Riches6 liked
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
Pup

1. Alford (Greatest 6 year run in program history) Bliss never won road games, faced the completion that Alford did outside of conference, and never cut down nets in vegas. 

2. Bliss

3. Colson

4. King

5. Ellenberg 

6. McKay

7. Neal

8. Frachilla 

9. Harrison ???

10....

11.....

99. Paul Weir 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 10:22 am
Lobo_for_life
(@lobo_for_life)
Pack Leader Lobo level
Posted by: @bubbawolf

1. Weir

2. McKay 

3. Fanchilla 

4. Neal

5. Bliss

6. Alford

7. Ellenberger

8. Bob King

9. Gary Colson

10. ????

I'm going off of the kind of person they were....from trusting to un trustworthy 

You're obviously too young to know some of these coaches. I shudder to think of any other reason.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 10:22 am
Riches6 liked
hippyboi
(@hippyboi)
Lobo

I wasn't there for King:

1. Alford

2. Stormin' Norman 

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Posted : February 23, 2021 11:01 am
Scott
(@Scott)
Pack Leader

Harrison ought to have a little bonus credit for what he did with what he had. He kept that group together and was a solid leader.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 11:46 am
hippyboi liked
Riches6
(@riches6)
Lobo
Posted by: @unm-class-of-1972
Posted by: @riches6

Since the Bob King Era based on overall influence and success for Lobo basketball:

1. Bob King

2. Steve Alford 

3.  Dave Bliss

4.  Norm Ellenberger 

5.  Gary Colson

6.  Ritchie McKay

7.  Craig Neal

8.  Fran Fraschilla 

9. Charlie Harrison (not his fault)

10. Paul Weir

Thoughts?

More or less agree maybe with a slightly different order. Bliss and Ellenberger needs asterisks next to their names for being either cheaters or people with bad character. Colson comes in first place for being a nice man.

I'm not sure Bliss was ever convicted of cheating at UNM.  Certainly at Baylor 

 

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Topic starter Posted : February 23, 2021 8:36 pm
The red wolf
(@the-red-wolf)
Pup

Bliss gets maligned for not winning on the road,  but that is a bit of a misnomer. ..he took us to 7 ncaa tournaments,  so his teams had to do pretty well. I don't think he had as much road success as afford, but we almost unbeatable at home. The big reason we didn't win more conference championships. Was rick majerus at Utah.  Our best teams coincided with Utah final 4 and elite 8 teams.

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Posted : February 23, 2021 9:04 pm
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