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Does NMSU ever discipline or suspend players???

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Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

This post was modified 1 week ago 2 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 24, 2022 5:30 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
Bradpal
(@bradpal)
Noble Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

I agree with you on the discipline angle. The argument appears to be if the player was suspended for this game then the situation would not have occurred. I don’t think discipline or lack there of was a factor. Just my opinion. 

However your defending oneself angle is laughable. What in the video do you see as defending oneself? The 3-4 people attacking one person? The 3-4 people kicking someone on the ground?  My opinion, regardless of how the confrontation started, the 3-4 individuals sucker punching and kicking are criminals and should be treated as such. None of that is justifiable and I wouldn’t be surprised if some, maybe all, will be facing criminal and/or civil litigation. 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:20 pm
northernaggi
(@northernaggi)
Estimable Member

Per the Las Cruces news, Mario Mochia has suspended Jerry Kill for assaulting Danny Gonzalez at the football game. Are you happy? Way to ruin Thanksgiving.

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:31 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
LoboInSF
(@loboinsf)
Estimable Member

@aggiequerque 

Ok, I'll play along with your avoidance of responsibility game. The reason we don't have all the facts is attributable to no one other than NMSU. We would know the facts had NMSU performed a proper investigation of the fight. However, it strains logic and common sense to believe that the UNM students, who are vastly outnumbered, are visitors at an opposing team's stadium, and are significantly outsized by a 6'8", 220 lb. athlete (or whatever Peake's height/weight is), initiated a physical altercation.   

I can't tell you what discipline would be sufficient because there isn't a proper investigation upon which I can rely to base that determination. What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others. It also didn't serve as a deterrent to his teammates since they apparently felt it was okay to also break curfew. Those are the facts. 

P.S. I appreciate your total mischaracterization and minimization of Peake's actual conduct by reducing it to "someone. . .leaving their hotel room." If it was that simple we wouldn't be having this conversation. How about asking what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone, who is a student athlete, from bringing a concealed weapon into an Uber and onto an opposing team's campus at 3:00 a.m. on game day, that he brought with him on the team bus, and after breaking curfew for an ill-advised hook up of some sort that clearly displays he disregards the law, has no appreciation for the possible consequences of his actions, and puts his interests above those of his team, teammates, coaches, university, and fans?

 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:33 pm
NMFANINOKC
(@nmfaninokc)
Member Registered
Posted by: @bradpal
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

I agree with you on the discipline angle. The argument appears to be if the player was suspended for this game then the situation would not have occurred. I don’t think discipline or lack there of was a factor. Just my opinion. 

However your defending oneself angle is laughable. What in the video do you see as defending oneself? The 3-4 people attacking one person? The 3-4 people kicking someone on the ground?  My opinion, regardless of how the confrontation started, the 3-4 individuals sucker punching and kicking are criminals and should be treated as such. None of that is justifiable and I wouldn’t be surprised if some, maybe all, will be facing criminal and/or civil litigation. 

Pretty simple, if you get into a brawl and your punishment is extra laps or whatever, there is not much accountability. If you have a zero tolerance policy and athletes like this get kicked off for actions like this or get suspended a few games than maybe it will not happen in the future. It is called building a foundation and institutional control. 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:35 pm
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bradpal
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

I agree with you on the discipline angle. The argument appears to be if the player was suspended for this game then the situation would not have occurred. I don’t think discipline or lack there of was a factor. Just my opinion. 

However your defending oneself angle is laughable. What in the video do you see as defending oneself? The 3-4 people attacking one person? The 3-4 people kicking someone on the ground?  My opinion, regardless of how the confrontation started, the 3-4 individuals sucker punching and kicking are criminals and should be treated as such. None of that is justifiable and I wouldn’t be surprised if some, maybe all, will be facing criminal and/or civil litigation. 

I agree with you. I think some are trying to say that if Peake was suspended for the UNM game, and not with the team, the incident wouldn’t have occurred. That’s true. But that’s a different argument than talking about “meaningful punishment…to serve as a deterrent”. 

Even if Peake was suspended for three games, he would have probably traveled with the team. Most teams do that. It appears NMSU is doing just that this weekend. 

As for the brawl, I’ve said, on more than one occasion, there is no reason for anyone to hit Brandon once he was on the ground. That goes beyond a brawl. Not a single Aggie player hit Brandon when he went down to the ground.

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:40 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
NMFANINOKC
(@nmfaninokc)
Member Registered
Posted by: @loboinsf

@aggiequerque 

Ok, I'll play along with your avoidance of responsibility game. The reason we don't have all the facts is attributable to no one other than NMSU. We would know the facts had NMSU performed a proper investigation of the fight. However, it strains logic and common sense to believe that the UNM students, who are vastly outnumbered, are visitors at an opposing team's stadium, and are significantly outsized by a 6'8", 220 lb. athlete (or whatever Peake's height/weight is), initiated a physical altercation.   

I can't tell you what discipline would be sufficient because there isn't a proper investigation upon which I can rely to base that determination. What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others. It also didn't serve as a deterrent to his teammates since they apparently felt it was okay to also break curfew. Those are the facts. 

P.S. I appreciate your total mischaracterization and minimization of Peake's actual conduct by reducing it to "someone. . .leaving their hotel room." If it was that simple we wouldn't be having this conversation. How about asking what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone, who is a student athlete, from bringing a concealed weapon into an Uber and onto an opposing team's campus at 3:00 a.m. on game day, that he brought with him on the team bus, and after breaking curfew for an ill-advised hook up of some sort that clearly displays he disregards the law, has no appreciation for the possible consequences of his actions, and puts his interests above those of his team, teammates, coaches, university, and fans?

 

Even in their zoom call the gal said they got the video 5 days later but how was she suppose to identify an NMSU athlete when they have hundreds on campus. It’s called investigation. If someone brought a video to me as an AD and I suspected it was an athlete or athletes within my program I would have them identified within a few days. Instead they pushed it off on NMSU security or police.

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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:41 pm
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @loboinsf

@aggiequerque 

Ok, I'll play along with your avoidance of responsibility game. The reason we don't have all the facts is attributable to no one other than NMSU. We would know the facts had NMSU performed a proper investigation of the fight. However, it strains logic and common sense to believe that the UNM students, who are vastly outnumbered, are visitors at an opposing team's stadium, and are significantly outsized by a 6'8", 220 lb. athlete (or whatever Peake's height/weight is), initiated a physical altercation.   

I can't tell you what discipline would be sufficient because there isn't a proper investigation upon which I can rely to base that determination. What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others. It also didn't serve as a deterrent to his teammates since they apparently felt it was okay to also break curfew. Those are the facts. 

P.S. I appreciate your total mischaracterization and minimization of Peake's actual conduct by reducing it to "someone. . .leaving their hotel room." If it was that simple we wouldn't be having this conversation. How about asking what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone, who is a student athlete, from bringing a concealed weapon into an Uber and onto an opposing team's campus at 3:00 a.m. on game day, that he brought with him on the team bus, and after breaking curfew for an ill-advised hook up of some sort that clearly displays he disregards the law, has no appreciation for the possible consequences of his actions, and puts his interests above those of his team, teammates, coaches, university, and fans?

 

You and I, as members of the public, are not entitled to any information from NMSU or anyone else. Who are you to say you need the facts? We have facts about Saturday night and people are saying we don’t know what happened, Jonathan and the girl talked after to get their stories straight, Peake was really out to get drugs, etc. If people knew the facts of the brawl, they would not believe them, they would say we will probably never know the truth and the facts would be twisted to fit a narrative. Maybe Peake started the brawl over drugs? 

Why is there not thread after thread discussing why a UNM student had a gun on the campus. That’s illegal, right?  Why were people not referring to Pistol Brandon? Why are you not outraged that a UNM student illegally had a gun on campus? How did he get it there? In a Uber? Does he have a license?  Was the gun legally purchased? Was Peake outnumbered Saturday night?

“What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others.”. Those are facts? You are going to stand behind that sentence and say everything in there is a fact?

This post was modified 1 week ago 4 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 24, 2022 6:52 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member

Look closely at the video. Brandon throws several punches at Peake right at the beginning. Peake had no right to swing back? Because he’s an athlete, or bigger, or in better shape, should he have stood there and let someone hit him? I guess if he simply walked away, Brandon would have stopped throwing punches?

Look at the middle of the video when the brawl is ending. Peake pulls a person off another. A slight bit of peacekeeping? He helps end the fracas. 

Jonathan throws a sucker punch way after the brawl ended (directed at Peake). He is yelling and gets in Peake’s face twice. After the brawl. 

I’m not laying blame on anyone. I’m not saying who is at fault. Just pointing some things out. But make no mistake, Brandon and Jonathan weren’t on the concourse reading the Bible. 

This post was modified 1 week ago 5 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 24, 2022 7:12 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
Digital Lobo
(@digital-lobo)
Illustrious Member

Question for the panel:

In terms of potential legal exposure and financial liability for NMSU and after objectively watching this video do you find Peake's actions to be incriminating or exculpatory?

https://twitter.com/Tionneomo/status/1581695229316300806?t=fwVVaRIyzIDwB2ckEtfdzg&s=01

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Posted : November 24, 2022 8:00 pm
Doublealum
(@doublealum)
Illustrious Member

@aggiequerque it appears to me, if I am correct in identifying the individuals correctly, as the video starts Mr. Peake is already engaged in the brawl (as is logical, the video starts after the fight is already in progress). From my perspective, as just between Mr.Peake and Mr. Travis, who punches 1st is not very relevant. This thread is about whether NMSU did then or are administering now the types of disciplinary  actions that are appropriate when dealing with SAs who are very visible representatives of the university. IMO, for whatever little that is worth, it does not appear so.

Having said that, I will repeat for the 4th time, nothing about the brawl, NMSU’s response or lack thereof, Mr.Peake’s apparent illegal actions on the fatal night in anyway justify or mitigate what appears based on what has been disclosed to this point to be the criminal actions of the UNM students. What I think are weak disciplinary actions by NMSU are not imo, relevant to judging the the actions of parties at the critical moments of the shootings - those judgements should be only made after a complete investigation, possible criminal& civil actions all the way through potential trials.

I suggest that in order to make reasonable efforts to create the necessary deterrents, NMSU should seriously consider imposing much stronger punishments for SAs who do not adhere to the standards the school thinks it should be represented by. IMO, not suspending SAs who participate in a brawl, not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game (sneaking out), basically, what appears to be a best a slap on the wrist will not get the job done but if that’s not the standards NMSU wants to set, then going forward we must just have to consider the source and respond accordingly with what we can control - our own behavior which watching Nunez’s & Pitino’s pressers is what appears to me to be what UNM is doing. 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 8:02 pm
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @doublealum

@aggiequerque it appears to me, if I am correct in identifying the individuals correctly, as the video starts Mr. Peake is already engaged in the brawl (as is logical, the video starts after the fight is already in progress). From my perspective, as just between Mr.Peake and Mr. Travis, who punches 1st is not very relevant. This thread is about whether NMSU did then or are administering now the types of disciplinary  actions that are appropriate when dealing with SAs who are very visible representatives of the university. IMO, for whatever little that is worth, it does not appear so.

Having said that, I will repeat for the 4th time, nothing about the brawl, NMSU’s response or lack thereof, Mr.Peake’s apparent illegal actions on the fatal night in anyway justify or mitigate what appears based on what has been disclosed to this point to be the criminal actions of the UNM students. What I think are weak disciplinary actions by NMSU are not imo, relevant to judging the the actions of parties at the critical moments of the shootings - those judgements should be only made after a complete investigation, possible criminal& civil actions all the way through potential trials.

I suggest that in order to make reasonable efforts to create the necessary deterrents, NMSU should seriously consider imposing much stronger punishments for SAs who do not adhere to the standards the school thinks it should be represented by. IMO, not suspending SAs who participate in a brawl, not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game (sneaking out), basically, what appears to be a best a slap on the wrist will not get the job done but if that’s not the standards NMSU wants to set, then going forward we must just have to consider the source and respond accordingly with what we can control - our own behavior which watching Nunez’s & Pitino’s pressers is what appears to me to be what UNM is doing. 

Very nice post. Thanks for the thoughtful response. 

One small thing. You spoke about “not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game”. We haven’t had a game since the incident, so we don’t know about benchings related to curfew. It sounds like some kids will not be playing this weekend. I would guess that would be punishment for breaking curfew. We shall see. 

This post was modified 1 week ago 2 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 24, 2022 8:15 pm
Doublealum
(@doublealum)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @doublealum

@aggiequerque it appears to me, if I am correct in identifying the individuals correctly, as the video starts Mr. Peake is already engaged in the brawl (as is logical, the video starts after the fight is already in progress). From my perspective, as just between Mr.Peake and Mr. Travis, who punches 1st is not very relevant. This thread is about whether NMSU did then or are administering now the types of disciplinary  actions that are appropriate when dealing with SAs who are very visible representatives of the university. IMO, for whatever little that is worth, it does not appear so.

Having said that, I will repeat for the 4th time, nothing about the brawl, NMSU’s response or lack thereof, Mr.Peake’s apparent illegal actions on the fatal night in anyway justify or mitigate what appears based on what has been disclosed to this point to be the criminal actions of the UNM students. What I think are weak disciplinary actions by NMSU are not imo, relevant to judging the the actions of parties at the critical moments of the shootings - those judgements should be only made after a complete investigation, possible criminal& civil actions all the way through potential trials.

I suggest that in order to make reasonable efforts to create the necessary deterrents, NMSU should seriously consider imposing much stronger punishments for SAs who do not adhere to the standards the school thinks it should be represented by. IMO, not suspending SAs who participate in a brawl, not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game (sneaking out), basically, what appears to be a best a slap on the wrist will not get the job done but if that’s not the standards NMSU wants to set, then going forward we must just have to consider the source and respond accordingly with what we can control - our own behavior which watching Nunez’s & Pitino’s pressers is what appears to me to be what UNM is doing. 

 

Very nice post. Thanks for the thoughtful response. 

One small thing. You spoke about “not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game”. We haven’t had a game since the incident, so we don’t know know about benchings related to curfew. It sounds like some kids will not be playing this weekend. I would guess that would be punishment for breaking curfew. We shall see. 

If they are benched (do not play), then I think that is a good decision - earlier I had suggested not taking the offenders on the trip but either way, imo for those SAs that is appropriate for a first time offense. Time will tell. Also, time will tell if the other Aggie who participated in the brawl at the football game will be allowed to continue to represent NMSU as a team member. I hope for everyone’s sake (including the young men) that standards are set and enforced.

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Posted : November 24, 2022 8:27 pm
Aggiequerque reacted
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @doublealum
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @doublealum

@aggiequerque it appears to me, if I am correct in identifying the individuals correctly, as the video starts Mr. Peake is already engaged in the brawl (as is logical, the video starts after the fight is already in progress). From my perspective, as just between Mr.Peake and Mr. Travis, who punches 1st is not very relevant. This thread is about whether NMSU did then or are administering now the types of disciplinary  actions that are appropriate when dealing with SAs who are very visible representatives of the university. IMO, for whatever little that is worth, it does not appear so.

Having said that, I will repeat for the 4th time, nothing about the brawl, NMSU’s response or lack thereof, Mr.Peake’s apparent illegal actions on the fatal night in anyway justify or mitigate what appears based on what has been disclosed to this point to be the criminal actions of the UNM students. What I think are weak disciplinary actions by NMSU are not imo, relevant to judging the the actions of parties at the critical moments of the shootings - those judgements should be only made after a complete investigation, possible criminal& civil actions all the way through potential trials.

I suggest that in order to make reasonable efforts to create the necessary deterrents, NMSU should seriously consider imposing much stronger punishments for SAs who do not adhere to the standards the school thinks it should be represented by. IMO, not suspending SAs who participate in a brawl, not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game (sneaking out), basically, what appears to be a best a slap on the wrist will not get the job done but if that’s not the standards NMSU wants to set, then going forward we must just have to consider the source and respond accordingly with what we can control - our own behavior which watching Nunez’s & Pitino’s pressers is what appears to me to be what UNM is doing. 

 

Very nice post. Thanks for the thoughtful response. 

One small thing. You spoke about “not benching for any time SAs who break curfew on the early morning hours of a game”. We haven’t had a game since the incident, so we don’t know know about benchings related to curfew. It sounds like some kids will not be playing this weekend. I would guess that would be punishment for breaking curfew. We shall see. 

If they are benched (do not play), then I think that is a good decision - earlier I had suggested not taking the offenders on the trip but either way, imo for those SAs that is appropriate for a first time offense. Time will tell. Also, time will tell if the other Aggie who participated in the brawl at the football game will be allowed to continue to represent NMSU as a team member. I hope for everyone’s sake (including the young men) that standards are set and enforced.

Good stuff. 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 8:34 pm
NMFANINOKC reacted
unmlobo1
(@unmlobo1)
Estimable Member

So to the original question in the post does New Mexico State ever discipline players? if so can anyone find an example of it on the Internet? Apparently the answer is a resounding no , as even though there dozens of posts including many by Aggie fans, not one person has found a reference example from the web of New Mexico State disciplining a player.    

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Topic starter Posted : November 24, 2022 9:42 pm
TheLoboMan
(@TheLoboMan)
Famed Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf

@aggiequerque 

Ok, I'll play along with your avoidance of responsibility game. The reason we don't have all the facts is attributable to no one other than NMSU. We would know the facts had NMSU performed a proper investigation of the fight. However, it strains logic and common sense to believe that the UNM students, who are vastly outnumbered, are visitors at an opposing team's stadium, and are significantly outsized by a 6'8", 220 lb. athlete (or whatever Peake's height/weight is), initiated a physical altercation.   

I can't tell you what discipline would be sufficient because there isn't a proper investigation upon which I can rely to base that determination. What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others. It also didn't serve as a deterrent to his teammates since they apparently felt it was okay to also break curfew. Those are the facts. 

P.S. I appreciate your total mischaracterization and minimization of Peake's actual conduct by reducing it to "someone. . .leaving their hotel room." If it was that simple we wouldn't be having this conversation. How about asking what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone, who is a student athlete, from bringing a concealed weapon into an Uber and onto an opposing team's campus at 3:00 a.m. on game day, that he brought with him on the team bus, and after breaking curfew for an ill-advised hook up of some sort that clearly displays he disregards the law, has no appreciation for the possible consequences of his actions, and puts his interests above those of his team, teammates, coaches, university, and fans?

 

 

You and I, as members of the public, are not entitled to any information from NMSU or anyone else. Who are you to say you need the facts? We have facts about Saturday night and people are saying we don’t know what happened, Jonathan and the girl talked after to get their stories straight, Peake was really out to get drugs, etc. If people knew the facts of the brawl, they would not believe them, they would say we will probably never know the truth and the facts would be twisted to fit a narrative. Maybe Peake started the brawl over drugs? 

Why is there not thread after thread discussing why a UNM student had a gun on the campus. That’s illegal, right?  Why were people not referring to Pistol Brandon? Why are you not outraged that a UNM student illegally had a gun on campus? How did he get it there? In a Uber? Does he have a license?  Was the gun legally purchased? Was Peake outnumbered Saturday night?

“What I can tell you is that whatever was imposed on him was clearly insufficient and only served to embolden him to escalate his misconduct and become a bigger threat to others.”. Those are facts? You are going to stand behind that sentence and say everything in there is a fact?

Actually we as a tax paying paying public are entitled to facts and information from NMSU and UNM. They are public institutions which fall under the open records act. Do we need to trot out the idiot fish bowl guy from Chicago to go after NMSU for facts on disciplinary of certain athletes. It will come out in court. 

Just some facts on UNM and coaches who suspend players for being late or breaking curfew. 

Alford disciplined Darrington Hobson for being 5 minutes late to a team meeting. Surely you remember cause it was in all the papers. 

Neal suspending players for breaking curfew. 

Weird suspending Elijah Brown for being out after curfew in Vegas. 

All coaches were up front and transparent on discipline with these athletes. 

NMSU is hiding something and can't be trusted because when you hide behind it's a program and it's coach excuse means you have no control. 

I know Peak defended himself. Good for him. But he carried a gun on a team bus to attend a school event representing the school out of town. It's easy just to be upfront and tell everyone he has been kicked out of school for violating a major code of student conduct much less an team or athletic code of conduct. 

In my book Peak would have been suspended for the first two games of the season and been on double secret probation for the rest of the season. Had this happened there is a good chance that UNM student would still be alive. Peak would have never been shot. Peak would have not broken curfew. The Lobo Aggie game would have been played. We would be on this site talking trash about the return to Los Cruces next week. Instead NMSU is being very vague. Transparency equals trust. If we see all player play in Vegas when we know some also broke curfew then NMSU has zero control over their athletic programs. 

We shall see. 

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Posted : November 24, 2022 9:54 pm
JulieG
(@julieg)
Illustrious Member Admin Registered

As for Mr. Peake I would be amazed if he is physically able to play this season. We will see who does play in Vegas although unless someone knows who broke curfew we may not have any idea who they are. ESPN has 19 on their roster as they do so observation may be difficult.

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Posted : November 24, 2022 10:28 pm
Bradpal
(@bradpal)
Noble Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @bradpal
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

I agree with you on the discipline angle. The argument appears to be if the player was suspended for this game then the situation would not have occurred. I don’t think discipline or lack there of was a factor. Just my opinion. 

However your defending oneself angle is laughable. What in the video do you see as defending oneself? The 3-4 people attacking one person? The 3-4 people kicking someone on the ground?  My opinion, regardless of how the confrontation started, the 3-4 individuals sucker punching and kicking are criminals and should be treated as such. None of that is justifiable and I wouldn’t be surprised if some, maybe all, will be facing criminal and/or civil litigation. 

 

I agree with you. I think some are trying to say that if Peake was suspended for the UNM game, and not with the team, the incident wouldn’t have occurred. That’s true. But that’s a different argument than talking about “meaningful punishment…to serve as a deterrent”. 

Even if Peake was suspended for three games, he would have probably traveled with the team. Most teams do that. It appears NMSU is doing just that this weekend. 

As for the brawl, I’ve said, on more than one occasion, there is no reason for anyone to hit Brandon once he was on the ground. That goes beyond a brawl. Not a single Aggie player hit Brandon when he went down to the ground.

Well, this is where the lack of institutional control comes in. Or at least there is a strong indication of such. Why are you able to identify “Aggie players” while the athletic administration kicked the ball to the Dean of students for discipline? Dean of students claims unable to identify. Notice the AD doesn’t say athletes were identified, were investigated and appropriate punishment was handed down? Didn’t say student athletes identified and coaches were made aware of their involvement. Didn’t say there was an investigation of any kind. The nmsu response to questions smells of a cover up because they didn’t do anything. No transparency, no attempt at transparency, just deflecting and making it someone else’s responsibility hoping that responsibility eventually fades away. I would suggest that punishment is only happening this weekend, as you indicate, because people are watching now. 

Again, I am not saying that situation this past weekend would have been different but it sure looks like, as an institution, nmsu was negligent in investigating  violations of and enforcing its code of conduct policies. If not enforced, do they really have a code of conduct or an expectation that students adhere to that policy. What about student athletes, they are normally held to a higher standard as they are representatives of the university. What is the expectation if there is no monitoring or enforcement of the policies? 

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Posted : November 25, 2022 7:46 am
unmlobo1 reacted
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bradpal
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @bradpal
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @loboinsf
Posted by: @aggiequerque

There are fights and skirmishes at games all the time, at stadiums everywhere, including UNM.

Yes, there are. But, there aren't "fights and skirmishes" at games all the time that involve the student athletes of the host institution. Do you not appreciate the difference? How many times does it need to be stated that a student athlete represents the institution and is held to a higher standard of conduct than the traditional student? There is no equivalency to a traditional student when you are a student athlete. Student athletes receive benefits because of their status that traditional students don't receive. And, with those extra benefits come extra obligations including having to conduct themselves in a more responsible and lawful manner. Student athletes can't get away with the same type of misconduct that traditional students can. Student athletes have extra eyes on them including their coaching staff, the athletic director, tutors, advisers, etc. that traditional students don't have. With that comes increased accountability. So, if Peake is able to participate in a "brawl" during a home football game and doesn't receive any meaningful discipline for it (certainly no discipline that served as a deterrent to any future misconduct by him and, in fact, whatever was or wasn't done to him only seemed to embolden and empower him to increase his level of misconduct), does that mean that a traditional student gets a congratulations certificate suitable for framing when he participates in a "brawl" during a home football game at NMSU? 

 

How many times does it need to be stated that no one knows the details of the brawl? If a student athlete is attacked or hit first, they have a right to defend themselves. Is that true? Or do they need to walk away and hope they aren’t hit again because they are a student athlete? If Joe Public is attacked first, do they have a right to fight back but student athletes don’t?

Enlighten us as to what “meaningful discipline” is.  If he was suspended for 2 games, would that have stopped him from sneaking out?  Would 17 games have done it?  How about 59 ladders? Would that be enough? In your opinion, what punishment would need to be doled out to discourage someone from leaving their hotel room. 

I agree with you on the discipline angle. The argument appears to be if the player was suspended for this game then the situation would not have occurred. I don’t think discipline or lack there of was a factor. Just my opinion. 

However your defending oneself angle is laughable. What in the video do you see as defending oneself? The 3-4 people attacking one person? The 3-4 people kicking someone on the ground?  My opinion, regardless of how the confrontation started, the 3-4 individuals sucker punching and kicking are criminals and should be treated as such. None of that is justifiable and I wouldn’t be surprised if some, maybe all, will be facing criminal and/or civil litigation. 

 

I agree with you. I think some are trying to say that if Peake was suspended for the UNM game, and not with the team, the incident wouldn’t have occurred. That’s true. But that’s a different argument than talking about “meaningful punishment…to serve as a deterrent”. 

Even if Peake was suspended for three games, he would have probably traveled with the team. Most teams do that. It appears NMSU is doing just that this weekend. 

As for the brawl, I’ve said, on more than one occasion, there is no reason for anyone to hit Brandon once he was on the ground. That goes beyond a brawl. Not a single Aggie player hit Brandon when he went down to the ground.

Well, this is where the lack of institutional control comes in. Or at least there is a strong indication of such. Why are you able to identify “Aggie players” while the athletic administration kicked the ball to the Dean of students for discipline? Dean of students claims unable to identify. Notice the AD doesn’t say athletes were identified, were investigated and appropriate punishment was handed down? Didn’t say student athletes identified and coaches were made aware of their involvement. Didn’t say there was an investigation of any kind. The nmsu response to questions smells of a cover up because they didn’t do anything. No transparency, no attempt at transparency, just deflecting and making it someone else’s responsibility hoping that responsibility eventually fades away. I would suggest that punishment is only happening this weekend, as you indicate, because people are watching now. 

Again, I am not saying that situation this past weekend would have been different but it sure looks like, as an institution, nmsu was negligent in investigating  violations of and enforcing its code of conduct policies. If not enforced, do they really have a code of conduct or an expectation that students adhere to that policy. What about student athletes, they are normally held to a higher standard as they are representatives of the university. What is the expectation if there is no monitoring or enforcement of the policies? 

I saw the video 2-3 times when it came out weeks ago. There was no mention that SA’s were in it. In fact, the first time I watched, I wasn’t sure it was from the FB game. I didn’t recognize anyone. After this weekend, I went back and really scrutinized the video. It still took quite a while to ID Peake. I was showing the video to someone a few days a ago when I realized a UTEP player was in there. I talked to McKinney at the game and knew what he was wearing but it took a ton of viewings before I ever noticed him. There are 19 players on our roster. 16 are new. We’ve played 2 games. I still need a cheat sheet to know who is on the court. 

NMSU said they received several videos of skirmishes. Do you know if people sent in videos and said “there are SA’s in this video”? We’re SA’s in every video? Why didn’t the media report anything?

It took a long time for the lair to know for sure Peake was in the video and point him out. Why couldn’t people in the lair ID him immediately? UNM folks are smart and NMSU is clueless, right? I’m still not 100% convinced if folks in the lair know if there are other Aggies in the video and if so, exactly who they are. 2 guys on here made an attempt to ID more players in the video and they got the folks wrong. Why is that?  Isn’t it easy to look at the video and immediately ID people?

This post was modified 1 week ago by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 25, 2022 9:24 am
NMFANINOKC reacted
FreeMuyGuapo
(@FreeMuyGuapo)
Noble Member

Here's what I see......

Aggie fans are extremely defensive about this topic for the obvious reason -- the optics are terrible. The entire defense of this incident they present is literally the one part where Peake shot in self defense. Ignored is an obvious problem in the culture of the basketball team. I think the idiotic court stomping bs is a pretty good snapshot of the culture of the program, and it hasn't just been like that under one coach. Focusing on the self defense bit is a good example of the "sharpshooter" logical fallacy.

In a situation like this, PR is important. The public wants to see that both sides of this mess are addressing it seriously. NMSU has flubbed that part of it, as evidenced by their slow actions and failure to provide team punishments that are visible to the public. Agree or not, the public, based on past experiences with college sports in general, will assume that student athletes get away with things other students or citizens are held accountable for, which is why sports teams and universities generally drop their own press releases about discipline, suspension, etc. Without that public accountability, people will obviously be skeptical about how the fight was handled, etc. And also about now.

That fight was ridiculous and should have resulted in charges for some, and removal from the program for others, for completely violating the spirit of higher education and college sports. Charging those involved may well have prevented a tragedy, had it been done.

There is so much blame and so much stupid in this situation that no one will win this argument. Literally everyone from the cop watching the brawl at the football game, to the deceased, to Peake, to the staff and admins of NMSU, et al shares a piece of blame. But in the end, it came down to a handful of kids making bad decisions, and every one of them was wrong and none are innocent.

And Aggies, you won't convince anyone here that doesn't already agree with you, and I am sure you realize that. Just saying. Society doesn't work that way anymore. I do, however, think that there is a halfway point where all can find common ground, and that includes admitting that the NMSU handling of the situation and those before it does not have good optics to those outside the NMSU community.

Programs have come under NCAA scrutiny for institutional oversight for far less than any of this. That's reality.

This post was modified 1 week ago 2 times by FreeMuyGuapo
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Posted : November 25, 2022 9:27 am
LoboMike and bdubnm reacted
Bradpal
(@bradpal)
Noble Member

@aggiequerque the more you reveal the worse the nmsu administration looks. You investigated, they did not. You made my point. It’s their job to investigate and they did not. It’s not about being clueless or smart, it’s about doing your job. Negligence or incompetence what is your vote?

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:28 am
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member

For the record, since it is not obvious to everyone, I don’t represent all the Aggie fans, Aggie Alert, NMSU or any other group. I represent me. These are my thoughts and what I think. 

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:31 am
NMFANINOKC reacted
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bradpal

@aggiequerque the more you reveal the worse the nmsu administration looks. You investigated, they did not. You made my point. It’s their job to investigate and they did not. It’s not about being clueless or smart, it’s about doing your job. Negligence or incompetence what is your vote?

My vote, for the millionth time, is I don’t know what happened or the details. The general consensus on here is NMSU is incompetent, they are hiding info, they are negligent, they are 100% wrong in everything and 100% to blame. There is no other conclusion. Since there is a lack of objectivity, I’m trying to counterbalance that. Present some thoughts from the other side. 

And for the millionth time, you don’t know what NMSU did or didn’t do. 

I’m also sure that UNM gets reports and videos after every game too (I’m being serious). I’m sure they have an investigative team that leaves no stone unturned, they immediately determine if SA’s are involved and they make the correct call on each and every video every single time. And because they are perfect, they prevent further incidents from ever happening. 

This post was modified 1 week ago 3 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:36 am
NMFANINOKC reacted
bdubnm
(@bdubnm-loboforlife10)
Famed Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque

I don’t see a single Aggie hit Brandon once he fell to the ground.

You are correct. McKinney (former Aggie, now UTEP Player) is the one that kicks and stomps on Brandon while he is on the ground. McKinney was at the game as NMSU honored last years basketball team for their NCAA Tournament Run.

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:39 am
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bdubnm-loboforlife10
Posted by: @aggiequerque

I don’t see a single Aggie hit Brandon once he fell to the ground.

You are correct. McKinney (former Aggie, now UTEP Player) is the one that kicks and stomps on Brandon while he is on the ground. McKinney was at the game as NMSU honored last years basketball team for their NCAA Tournament Run.

UTEP was negligent and dropped the ball. They should have foreseen this and prevented it. They did not investigate the video and are incompetent. Why did we not hear about their players being involved weeks ago? They should be held accountable. 

This post was modified 1 week ago 2 times by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:45 am
NMFANINOKC reacted
bdubnm
(@bdubnm-loboforlife10)
Famed Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque

Instead of asking for others to fix things, why don’t we do our part?

I agree @aggiequerque.

People are still in various stages of grief over this incident, give it some time. I for one have just passed the "I'm Pissed" stage. A lot of people are still looking to blame someone / anyone for the tragic incident. I am still looking for both universities to take accountability and provide leadership to us fans / students with a path forward to show how we can come together to create a healthy rivalry instead of this toxic relationship. That hasn't really happened. Both universities talked about providing better security, blah blah blah, but neither really addressed the toxicity that this rivalry has become.

Unfortunately, It truly will be up to the fans and students here to heal this thing. It starts with all of us showing respect for others. As you can see in this forum that every thread quickly delves into a shit throwing fest where people argue about nothing / everything. The admin's over in your forum (AA) run a much tighter ship on that front. While I haven't posted over there, I have enjoyed it as most posters do not instantly switch to personal attacks when you have a disagreement and when they do, the mods quickly end those fueds.

Anyhoo... I wish you and NMSU the best moving forward and hope one day we can return this rivalry to a healthy place.

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:49 am
JulieG and Aggiequerque reacted
bdubnm
(@bdubnm-loboforlife10)
Famed Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque

UTEP was negligent and dropped the ball. They should have foreseen this and prevented it. They did not investigate the video and are incompetent. Why did we not hear about their players being involved weeks ago? They should be held accountable. 

I know you are being sarcastic, but once again I agree. McKinney looks to have gotten a 1 game suspension after head stomping a person laying on the ground. He missed the Alcorn State game after multiple reporters asked UTEP for comment. He was back playing their next game.

I guess a 1 game suspension is the going punishment at UTEP for head stomping someone?!? Such a shame.

ReplyQuote
Posted : November 25, 2022 10:52 am
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bdubnm-loboforlife10
Posted by: @aggiequerque

Instead of asking for others to fix things, why don’t we do our part?

I agree @aggiequerque.

People are still in various stages of grief over this incident, give it some time. I for one have just passed the "I'm Pissed" stage. I was looking for both universities to take accountability and provide leadership to us fans / students with a path forward to show how we can come together to create a healthy rivalry instead of this toxic relationship. That hasn't really happend. Both universities talked about providing better security, blah blah blah, but neither really addressed the toxicity that this rivalry has become.

Unfortunately, It truly will be up to the fans and students here to heal this thing. It starts with all of us showing respect for others. As you can see in this forum that every thread quickly delves into a shit throwing fest where people argue about nothing / everything. The admin's over in your forum (AA) run a much tighter ship on that front. While I haven't posted over there, I have enjoyed it as most posters do not instantly switch to personal attacks when you have a disagreement and when they do, the mods quickly end those fueds.

Anyhoo... I wish you and NMSU the best moving forward and hope one day we can return this rivalry to a healthy place.

You are pure class bdub. Thumbs up. 

This post was modified 1 week ago by Aggiequerque
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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:53 am
NMFANINOKC reacted
Aggiequerque
(@aggiequerque)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @bdubnm-loboforlife10
Posted by: @aggiequerque

UTEP was negligent and dropped the ball. They should have foreseen this and prevented it. They did not investigate the video and are incompetent. Why did we not hear about their players being involved weeks ago? They should be held accountable. 

I know you are being sarcastic, but once again I agree. McKinney looks to have gotten a 1 game suspension after head stomping a person laying on the ground. He missed the Alcorn State game after multiple reporters asked UTEP for comment. He was back playing their next game.

I guess a 1 game suspension is the going punishment at UTEP for head stomping someone?!? Such a shame.

He also missed the Texas game to start the season. Not sure if that was related. 

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:56 am
bdubnm reacted
FreeMuyGuapo
(@FreeMuyGuapo)
Noble Member
Posted by: @aggiequerque
Posted by: @bdubnm-loboforlife10
Posted by: @aggiequerque

I don’t see a single Aggie hit Brandon once he fell to the ground.

You are correct. McKinney (former Aggie, now UTEP Player) is the one that kicks and stomps on Brandon while he is on the ground. McKinney was at the game as NMSU honored last years basketball team for their NCAA Tournament Run.

UTEP was negligent and dropped the ball. They should have foreseen this and prevented it. They did not investigate the video and are incompetent. Why did we not hear about their players being involved weeks ago? They should be held accountable. 

Yes, they should have.

That fact has literally nothing to do with the handling of these issues by NMSU. They are not related.

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Posted : November 25, 2022 10:58 am
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